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huzzah for the second amendment
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dumbwhiteguy



Joined: 23 Jul 2003
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Location: Edwards air force base

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: huzzah for the second amendment Reply with quote

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574

Quote:
By DAVID SCHOETZ, NED POTTER, and the staff of ABC News

Apr. 16, 2007— At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass killing on a college campus in American history — and the death toll may rise.

Police at Virginia Tech, in Blaksburg, Va., said that the shootings happened at a dormitory and a classroom on opposite sides of the university campus.

Law enforcement sources tell ABC News the shooting may have been set off by an off-campus incident. Details were unclear.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that one person was killed in the first shooting, which occurred just after 7 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a large dormitory. Flinchum said that at least 20 more people were killed at Norris Hall, an academic building.

The gunman, whose identity has not been released, is among the dead. Flinchum wouldn't say whether the shooter had killed himself.

ABC News has confirmed that there were two separate bomb threats last week at Virginia Tech that targeted engineering buildings. The first was directed at Torgersen Hall, while the second was directed at multiple engineering buildings. Students and staff were evacuated, and the university had offered a $5,000 reward for information into the threats.

Two local hospitals have reported treating 21 people, though it is unclear how many of those may have died.

University president Charles Steger said that police have not officially tied together the two shootings.

Steger described today's events as an incident of "tragic proportions" and said, "the university is shocked and horrified that this would befall us."

The campus is closed today and classed are canceled today and tomorrow. Families seeking to reunite with their children have been directed by the university to the Inn at Virginia Tech.

Virginia Tech, located in western Virginia near the borders of West Virginia and Tennessee, has more than 25,000 full time students. Its campus, which spreads out over 2,600 acres, has more than 100 buildings.

S. Daniel Carter, senior vice president for Security On Campus, Inc. who has been studying campus crime for 15 years, said he watched the news at Virginia Tech unfold in "utter shock." Carter is based a couple of hours' drive away, in Knoxville, Tenn.

"Nothing like this has happened before," he said, adding that the average number of killings on all American campuses combined has hovered around 20 since the Department of Education formally began collecting data in the early 1990s.

While information had not been released about the gunman, Carter said he suspected that whoever the shooter was suffered from some deep psychological problem and was likely connected to the university campus in some way.

"In the past, in similar cases, it's usually been a psychological issue and not just a security issue," Carter said. "One of the people who was killed was an older individual, maybe a faculty member. That could be a likely underlying factor in this case  someone who has failed."

"It is difficult to comprehend senseless violence on this scale," said Virginia's Governor Timothy M. Kaine in a statement. "Our prayers are with the families and friends of these victims, and members of the extended Virginia Tech community."

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dumbwhiteguy



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my cousin Joe works as a paramedic around there, I'll have to call him up and see if he was there.
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dumbwhiteguy



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of course Fred Phelps has gotten in on this
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D3athP3nguin



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I was working tech support a few buildings away from Norris Hall at the time the kids were killed. I didn't see any of the carnage, but I sure as hell saw the response.

They had an army of cops all over campus, with M-16s and shotguns... and they couldn't do squat. All they did was arrest a few people who looked suspicious to them. The police did their job; we had every cop from here to Roanoke on campus and armed to the teeth within an hour. But, a police response is almost always reactionary. In an incident like this, the only way to stop such actions is to cut them short in the process. Since we don't want to live in a police state with a cop in every building, I think the only thing that could have stopped this student would be another student or faculty member with a gun.

Sure, you could say that there were signs; that we could have prevented the problem by helping the Korean English major with whatever issues he was having. However, you can't stop every kid who has problems; especially since most of these school-shooter types are loners and outcasts. You could blame the parents, since they have an influence on their child's development- but news reports say that the shooter's parents were good people, and took care of their kid. They immigrated to America from Korea and sent their kid to college here to get him a better life, so are they to blame?

I think the best person to blame, if any, for the shooting is the shooter- plain and simple. He was a 23-year-old adult with psychological problems. There weren't enough long-term signs in his behavior to foreshadow anything this bad. He had a lot of hate in his heart, and he was nutty enough to kill people because of it.

Incidents like these are the reason I am in favor in gun control. If you don't think adult students should be able to carry guns on campus, then I would advocate armed security in every building. The only way to stop a lunatic with a gun is by taking him out with another gun- I would say either get some armed guards in every building, or let adults (21 year olds in America) with the proper permits carry guns for self-defense.

I don't think that guns should ever have to be in a place of learning... but if you are concerned about security on a campus, the above options are the only things that seem to make sense to me. Personally, if a gunman barged into my classroom, I would rather have one or two armed adult students (or professors) with a gun than a fully armed police response an hour too late.
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Zenphobia



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Students at my school are bitching about our campus police being armed (it was a motion that just recently passed).

For fuck sakes, imagine an unarmed cop in this situation.
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Kiretsu



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zenphobia wrote:

For fuck sakes, imagine an unarmed cop in this situation.


*imagines and wets his bed*


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The Eggplant



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.
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Emperor Xan



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem isn't a proliferation of weapons. It's the lack of respect for human life and the power one has with even the most simplistic of tools to kill that is at the root of the problem.
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unavoidable



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find the gun-control pushage to be disgusting. Guns do not kill people, PEOPLE with guns kill people. Where are the New York Times' and other papers hearts?!
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Kiretsu



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggy wrote:
Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.


Because to do that in this case would be racist almost.
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Kolian



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure CNN will have some panels together to discuss (shout talking points loudly) how this will affect people's perceptions of Korean immigrants.
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D3athP3nguin



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggy wrote:
Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.


Now that the footage of the shooter's ranting has gone up, it really makes it clear to me that this guy fits the profile of other school shooters- has fantasies of being a "lone gunslinger" with the appearance to boot; takes pictures of himself trying to look dangerous. A Canadian kid named Gill did the same thing on his own weblog:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060914/gill_profile_060914/20060915/

This may be a touchy issue, but does anyone here think that adults who meet background check requirements should be allowed to carry concealed weapons even if they're on a campus? Personally, I agree with the pro-carry lobbyist Suzanna Hupp when she points out that virtually all of these mass shootings take place in areas where guns are not allowed. When law-abiding citizens aren't allowed to carry weapons for defense, they are left at the mercy of those WHO DO NOT OBEY the law.

Sorry If I seem intense on the issue, but being this close to a shooting will tend to give you some convictions I'm open to debate, so feel free to disagree.
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Kiretsu



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D3athP3nguin wrote:

This may be a touchy issue, but does anyone here think that adults who meet background check requirements should be allowed to carry concealed weapons even if they're on a campus?


I heard second hand from a a roommate of mine that Virginia has a "no guns on Campus" rule/law. As I said, that was second hand, and I haven't researched it myself, but I see no reason why most states or campusi would not have such a restrictiveness.
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D3athP3nguin



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiretsu wrote:

I heard second hand from a a roommate of mine that Virginia has a "no guns on Campus" rule/law. As I said, that was second hand, and I haven't researched it myself, but I see no reason why most states or campusi would not have such a restrictiveness.


This is true- to my knowledge, Virginians are allowed to conceal-carry in all but two places: bars (alcohol, makes sense) and academic institutions. Unfortunately, the latter is an all-too-easy target for a gunman looking to rack a high body count.
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Bearses



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggy wrote:
Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.


SIMPLE EXPLANATION: Because the shooter is dead. No profit can be made off a dead man. They need a scapegoat.
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The Eggplant



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiretsu wrote:
Eggy wrote:
Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.


Because to do that in this case would be racist almost.

It already is a race thing.

http://www.8asians.com/2007/04/18/nprs-robert-siegel-cho-lived-and-died-as-an-american/
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Kiretsu



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggy wrote:
Kiretsu wrote:
Eggy wrote:
Everybody wants to blame something BUT the shooter.


Because to do that in this case would be racist almost.

It already is a race thing.

http://www.8asians.com/2007/04/18/nprs-robert-siegel-cho-lived-and-died-as-an-american/


Well, to point out one thing, nationality is not equal to race. Slight difference there, although the two do very often overlap.

What I've been reading and hearing about this situation (no TV, one more reason not to have it) so far, a lot of where he was from has been mentioned, but it is also almost always conjointly mentioned that he came here in 92' and was legal.

If this kid was Caucasian, from any country and did the same thing, it would be getting much different attention. If he was a local kid, the attention would also be very different.

But, since almost right away the first bit we knew about this kid was that he was of Asian decent, almost immediately people do start to dissacociate with him. It makes him not one of us, it distances him from our minds, it makes him more dark and mysterious, and we don't feel the same bond as if he had been born in the US, regardless of heritage.

People for the most part want to do that in times like these, because it puts the situation slightly closer to the neighbors fence, rather than having it all in their backyard.

This, is of course regardless of the fact that most people in the US have immigration in their not too distant family history.

Really though I haven't seen the race card played this week, as much as it was played with Don Imus. But of course, his "attacks" were on our front steps, as opposed to closer to that fence near the back of the yard.

Its odd how the media changes in a week.
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Intelligence ruins perfectly good adventures.

My quandaries make my head spin and my tummy growl.

There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.

Live every week like it's Shark Week!
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dumbwhiteguy



Joined: 23 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now it's NASA
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The Eggplant



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame it all on sunspots and cosmic radiation.
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Therainfalls. M110



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anyone here bothered by the fact that this story is the ONLY thing on most news stations. I was really hanging off every word of this story when I had things put in perspective by a reporter in Iraq.

He was being interviewed by some news channel about the videos Cho released because he had analyzed it and noted that he had the characteristics of a martyr.
The news anchor went on to say not much coverage of that story had been going on over there. The reporter agreed and noted that about 200 people were dead from car bombs that Day.

Seriously, I don't see why they have to stretch coverage on this out for so long. They report on nothing, they interview people on the campus who were on the complete opposite side and didn't see anything. They interviewed familys of students there about gun laws. Not victims, Just regular students.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have discussion about it. I just don't think that the media has to whore the issue so entirely that you know the damn opinion of everyone in virginia AND the surrounding states. At least give updates on other things instead of these 8+ hour specials on 1 school shooting with no other news at all.

should we be discussion the massacres happening in Iraq, Or should we interview every person who was in contact with cho for the last 4 years?

Rant aside, I personally believe he was bullied in high school to the point he became so disgusted with himself (self esteem wise) and people in general that he sort of.... snapped and decided this was the only way out.


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