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Which are the lies?

 
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Which are the lies? Reply with quote

I was hoping that you political-types could help me out here. You see, the propaganda is starting to get to my head--beyond just my digestive system.

I already know that Fox News lies. I don't make any effort to watch it, yet basically the only time (that I remember) that I saw them involved a blatant lie. I posted it here: the President had recently admitted that things in Iraq were going poorly, and Fox said in a consoling tone "it's okay, no one could have predicted how quickly the terrorists would merge/fuse/become one-and-the-same with the insurgents." (Huh? When did any other news source anywhere say that this had happened?)

Thankfully, since then, my AP News has seemed to carefully avoid giving deceptive information. I seem to recall DSG making a post where he pointed out how "Al Qaida in Iraq" is its own organization separate from Al Qaida, and I noted that all news reports seemed to keep this distinction in mind.

But now . . .

It seems that ever since "our" "President" declared Al Qaida to be the number one threat in Iraq, I'm seeing article after article talking about the situation as though Fox were right. This is the latest one, and the one that is messing with me:

AP news article, May 14, 5:32 PM EDT

Full text (just scroll to the bottom to see the parts I found worth quoting):

Thomas Wagner wrote:
Al-Qaida: Stop Search for U.S. Soldiers

BAGHDAD (AP) -- An al-Qaida front group that claims it has captured American soldiers warned the United States on Monday to stop searching for them. The insurgents suggested they attacked the U.S. convoy as revenge for the rape and murder of a local teenager last year.

The U.S. military also said for the first time it believes the three missing soldiers were abducted by al-Qaida-linked militants after an attack that included three roadside bombs.

"What you are doing in searching for your soldiers will lead to nothing but exhaustion and headaches. Your soldiers are in our hands. If you want their safety, do not look for them," the Islamic State of Iraq said on a militant Web site.

"You should remember what you have done to our sister Abeer in the same area," the statement said, referring to five American soldiers who were charged in the rape and killing of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and the killings of her parents and her younger sister last year.

Three soldiers have pleaded guilty in the case - one of the most shocking atrocities committed by U.S. troops in the Iraq war.

Three U.S. soldiers have been missing since Saturday, since a deadly attack on their convoy in Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad. The attack also killed four U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi soldier, according to the military, which had described the Iraqi as an interpreter.

On Sunday, the Islamic State of Iraq claimed that it had captured U.S soldiers in the deadly attack in the Sunni area, which is known as the "triangle of death" and is an al-Qaida stronghold.

If the claim proves true, it would mark one of the most brazen attacks by the Islamic State of Iraq, a coalition of eight insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq.

About 4,000 U.S. troops backed by aircraft, intelligence units and Iraqi forces have been scouring the farming area around Mahmoudiya and the nearby town of Youssifiyah for three days, as the military promised to make every effort available to find the missing soldiers.

On Monday, U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell, IV said: "At this time, we believe they (the three soldiers) were abducted by terrorists belonging to al Qaida or an affiliated group, and this assessment is based on highly credible intelligence information."

Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, another U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, pointed out earlier Monday that the terror network also had claimed responsibility for killing two U.S. soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found in the same area last year.

Late last month, the group named a 10-member "Cabinet" complete with a "war minister," an apparent attempt to present the Sunni coalition as an alternative to the U.S.-backed Shiite-led administration of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

The family of Army Sgt. 1st Class James David Connell Jr., 40, of Lake City, Tenn., said he was among one of the four soldiers killed in the attack near Mahmoudiya.

Four U.S. troops were killed in three separate attacks in Baghdad and south of the capital on Monday, while a fifth soldier died of non-combat related causes, the military said. The deaths raised to at least 3,398 the members of the U.S. military who have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

A roadside bomb near the southern city of Basra . . . [it continues on to describe other violence]

U.S. and Iraqi forces also exchanged fire with gunmen near the town of Youssifiyah during the house-to-house search operation for the missing American soldiers, killing two suspected insurgents and injuring four others, a top Iraqi army officer in the area said.

He said the fighting began at about 3:30 a.m. and lasted for about 30 minutes. The officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to security concerns, said the coalition's search operation in the region has detained more than 100 suspects. The U.S. military did not immediately comment on the report.

Deadly violence also struck other areas of Iraq on Monday . . . [and it continues on to describe that, too]

And I quote:

Thomas Wagner wrote:
An al-Qaida front group that claims it has captured American soldiers warned the United States on Monday to stop searching for them. The insurgents suggested they attacked the U.S. convoy as revenge for the rape and murder of a local teenager last year.

Thomas Wagner wrote:
If the claim proves true, it would mark one of the most brazen attacks by the Islamic State of Iraq, a coalition of eight insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq.

So . . . huh? How can a coalition of eight insurgent groups fighting a guerrilla/civil war . . . equal a front group? (Let alone a front group for terrorists.) Did I just not get the memo?

Did the President reveal some "intelligence" in a recent speech that demonstrated there actually were ties to terrorism (for once)? If so then I need to hear this, for I am dreadfully misinformed. But . . . eight groups? A front group?

What am I missing?

--Rexfelum
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What in the blazes?

The article has changed. Yet again, a news article on the internet has changed.

If you will follow the link I provided over to AP News, you will see that "Kim Gamel" wrote this article, and it is entitled "Militants: Stop Hunt for U.S. Soldiers."

Okay, thankfully there is now slightly less inaccuracy. But . . . ??(excessive question-marks)??

--Rexfelum
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Guppy



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the internets they be called live documents which change rapidly with fact checks, censors and whatnots. Also how long will this front group be for, and is there really a central command ol fogeys in the white house can comprehend..... its a hybridization of warfare really... or just one collabortive effort, we never know unless we are on the front lines
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DSG



Joined: 27 Nov 2002
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Location: Clutching a high powered rifle on a rooftop near you

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It seems that ever since "our" "President" declared Al Qaida to be the number one threat in Iraq, I'm seeing article after article talking about the situation as though Fox were right.

I don't have any links but the figure I keep hearing from interviews on television on the amount of Al Qaeda terrorists is at or around 7 percent. This figure has been repeated from at least a half dozen sources, if not more. Which means if they are number one, it may be because the administration has finally admitted that they're the reason behind 9/11.

FOX News is evil and simply cannot be trusted. Stay away from the dark side, Richard...come back to the light.
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DSG wrote:
Stay away from the dark side, Richard...come back to the light.

Oh, I'm stayin' in the light, I'm stayin'. But I'd still like it if someone would replace those whining flourescents with something more friendly.

--Rexfelum
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Saggio l'uno



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read Robert Fisk.
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now to find out how many people notice I bumped a thread from 2007, and how many get all confused thinking that the above news article is new.

I wanted to post in here because I read something relevant to these various groups swearing allegiance to Al-Qaida. As already discussed, we are aware Al-Qaida in Iraq used to be people with different goals under a different name, and they only came to their current state after we invaded Iraq. I was annoyed, in fact, during the 2008 election, when McCain criticized Obama's "ignorance" of Al-Qaida's presence in Iraq, saying something like "I have news for you: Al-Qaida is in Iraq. It's called 'Al-Qaida in Iraq.'" And I was insulted by the tangled web of lies that prompted me to post the above.

But today I read the below. Unfortunately . . . guess what? It, too, was edited after I first saw it. I will tell you what was removed at the bottom.

Link to article thing.

Kimberly Dozier wrote:
Bin Laden's last words go online

May 3, 10:42 AM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In letters from his last hideout, Osama bin Laden fretted about dysfunction in his terrorist network and crumbling trust from Muslims he wished to incite against their government and the West.

A selection of documents seized in last year's raid on bin Laden's Pakistan house was posted online Thursday by the U.S. Army's Combating Terrorism Center. The documents show dark days for al-Qaida and its hunkered-down leader after years of attacks by the United States and what bin Laden saw as bumbling within his own organization and its terrorist allies.

"I plan to release a statement that we are starting a new phase to correct (the mistakes) we made," bin Laden wrote in 2010. "In doing so, we shall reclaim, God willing, the trust of a large segment of those who lost their trust in the jihadis."

Until the end, bin Laden remained focused on attacking Americans and coming up with plots, however improbable, to kill U.S. leaders. He wished especially to target airplanes carrying Gen. David Petraeus and even President Barack Obama, reasoning that an assassination would elevate an "utterly unprepared" Vice President Joe Biden into the presidency and plunge the U.S. into crisis.

But a U.S. analysts' report released along with bin Laden's correspondence describes him as upset over the inability of spinoff terrorist groups to win public support for their cause, their unsuccessful media campaigns and poorly planned plots that, in bin Laden's view, killed too many innocent Muslims.

Bin Laden's inner circle also was frustrated when, in 2010, attention in the U.S. shifted to the weak economy without apparently crediting al-Qaida for the economic damage that terrorist attacks had caused. "All the political talk in America is about the economy, forgetting or ignoring the war and its role in weakening the economy," his spokesman, Adam Gadahn, wrote.

Al-Qaida's relationship with Iran, a point of deep interest to the U.S. government, was rough, judging from the documents. After the U.S. invaded Afghanistan in 2001, some top al-Qaida operatives and their families fled to Iran, where authorities there put them under house arrest. Over the years, Iran has released some, including members of bin Laden's family. Still, others remain.

Atiyah Abd al-Rahman, who became al-Qaida's No. 2 after bin Laden's death, complained bitterly about dealing with the Iranians and their Byzantine methods of negotiating. Al-Rahman was later killed in a U.S. drone strike.

"The criminals did not send us any letter, nor did they send us a message through any of the brothers," al-Rahman wrote. "Such behavior is of course not unusual for them; indeed, it is typical of their mindset and method. They do not wish to appear to be negotiating with us or responding to our pressures."

Bin Laden himself wrote that "controlling children" was one of the keys to hiding in cities, as he did for years while U.S. forces searched Pakistan's rugged frontier. He encouraged his followers in hiding to teach their children the local language and not let them out of their homes "except for extreme necessity like medical care."

The correspondence suggests that al-Qaida carefully monitored U.S. cable news networks and generally didn't like what it saw. "We can say that there is no single channel that we could rely on for our messages," Gadahn wrote, although he described ABC as "all right, actually it could be one of the best channels as far as we are concerned." He complained that Fox News "falls into the abyss, as you know, and lacks neutrality." CNN, he said, "seems to be in cooperation with the government more than the others except Fox News, of course."

Gadahn suggested sending videos of bin Laden's remarks to all the U.S. news networks - except Fox News. "Let her die in anger," he wrote.

The correspondence includes letters by then-second-in-command Abu Yahya al-Libi, taking Pakistani offshoot Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan to task over its indiscriminate attacks on Muslims. The al-Qaida leadership "threatened to take public measures unless we see from you serious and immediate practical and clear steps towards reforming (your ways) and dissociating yourself from these vile mistakes that violate Islamic Law," al-Libi wrote.

Apparently bin Laden was not made of aware of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan's planned bombing of Times Square in New York in May 2010. But he expressed disappointment that Faisal Shahzad didn't manage to pull off the attack after the bomb failed to detonate. Shahzad was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the attempted attack.

Bin Laden also warned the leader of Yemeni AQAP, Nasir al-Wuhayshi, against attempting a takeover of Yemen to establish an Islamic state, instead saying he should "refocus his efforts on attacking the United States."

And he seemed uninterested in recognizing Somali-based al-Shabab when the group pledged loyalty to him because he thought its leaders were poor governors of the areas they controlled and were too strict with their administration of Islamic penalties, like cutting off the hands of thieves.

Nothing in the papers that were released points directly to al-Qaida sympathizers in Pakistan's government, although presumably such references would have remained classified. Bin Laden described "trusted Pakistani brothers" but didn't identify any Pakistani government or military officials who might have been aware of or complicit in his hiding in Abbottabad.

It wasn't immediately clear how many of bin Laden's documents the U.S. was still keeping secret. In a note published with the 175 pages in Arabic that were released Thursday along with English translations, retired Gen. John Abizaid said they probably represent only a small fraction of materials taken from the compound in the U.S. raid that tracked down and killed bin Laden in May 2011. The U.S. said the documents span September 2006 to April 2011.

The report said the Special Operations troops in the bin Laden raid were trained to search the home afterward for thumb drives, printed documents and what it described as "pocket litter" that might produce leads to other terrorists. "The end of the raid in Abbottabad was the beginning of a massive analytical effort," it said.

It said the personal files showed that, during one of the most significant manhunts in history, bin Laden was out of touch with the day-to-day operations of various terrorist groups inspired by al-Qaida. He was "not in sync on the operational level with its so-called affiliates," researchers wrote. "Bin Laden enjoyed little control over either groups affiliated with al Qaida in name or so-called fellow travelers."

First, you can see the split language on whether "these other groups" = "Al-Qaida," but it's better this time around. It starts by calling them "spinoffs," which of course could be literally composed of Al-Qaida members, but does at least conclude which a whole paragraph on "so-called fellow travelers." So that's something.

But second, if you read that, I'm sure you noticed the list of affiliates treated one after another: in Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. You might have noticed one missing. You know, the one that I've been explicitly discussing this whole time. This is because the article USED TO have a reference to Al-Qaida in Iraq immediately after the "killed too many innocent Muslims" paragraph, but it was edited before I could post it.

In short, the original said the same sort of thing about Al-Qaida being disappointed in/wanting to dissociate themselves from "AQI." You know, just like others afterward.

And yeah, we can be sure that the government released only the documents that most emphasized the rifts, for propaganda purposes. But I just wanted to note that the above happened.

--Rexfelum
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LadyGodai



Joined: 03 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I never thought would come the day when I would barely watch Fox News anymore. Now I have a much more reason not to anymore. Thanks, Rex!
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