Broken Saints Forum Index Broken Saints
Forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

CHAPTER 20 Discussion - Reflections on INSIDE!!!
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Broken Saints Forum Index -> We Haven't Slept in Lifetimes...and our 1000 Eyes are Burning.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Posts: 2341
Location: Not there...THERE!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: CHAPTER 20 Discussion - Reflections on INSIDE!!! Reply with quote

Ok...

Now I KNOW that a good chunk of you have opinions on this one...

I'm VERY curious to hear them...

Care to share?

Fungal friends are welcome here.



b
_________________
It is flickering
A distant lamp
But I can still see it
Not just another star
It is Me
It is You
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
XuShenLi



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 1616
Location: West Lafayette, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this the one where Shandala kills those soldiers who just walked in on the gang just as Oran was about go out?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Posts: 2341
Location: Not there...THERE!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope...it's the trippy mushroom 'origin' story!
_________________
It is flickering
A distant lamp
But I can still see it
Not just another star
It is Me
It is You
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
XuShenLi



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 1616
Location: West Lafayette, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooh! Sorry.

At least we understand now what happened to these guys. We see how they became who they were before they met each other. I'd say more about I'm empty of thoughts at the moment. I felt sympathic to Raimi's pain when dealing with his dying mother.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Guppy



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 5670
Location: bullseye, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alriiiiiiiiiiiight.... my fav chapter man this is when the series comes full circle and we find out how they are all connected through a trip if you will... I mean I did a presentation/ improv dance to the music and featured this chapter. Too bad I never got video like Mr. Rex.

Okay this is the only beginning that made me jump out of my seat and scream a little bit.

Anyway my favorite acts are Oran's which is the act I showed to my classmates.... all of them just freakin Gushed and wanted to know more about the series. The sequence when the Shan-like spirit reveals herself to Oran was holy f-shit wow just chilling, suspensful but conveyed a lot more then I think it intended. Okay I am rambling... but yeah this is when my obsession to the end started really. I dunno I think I watched this chapter more than anyone humanly can.

Also Raimi's chapter ... just the last lines from Chappy 2 made me tear up.

Also this chapter is when Andrew/Ian blew us away with the artwork yeah we saw it in 18 and 19 but its just beautiful here... superb.
_________________
Honor thy error as a hidden intention
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waaauuurgh. If Neil Gaiman hadn't already gotten to my brain, this would be life-changing. Instead, it is just one increment away.

I love this chapter. There are so many wonderful things here, including many that I think would actually be cheapened if I tried to describe them. So I won't.

Instead, here's just a couple. One: I loved that roar at the start on "Oz." It was fantastic in and of itself, and it also fed into my "finding words in the screams"-thing. "Allah" for the warbling cry in Chapter 6, Act I . . . "Oz" here . . . "Christ" in the female scream in Chapter 22's opening sequence . . . yeah. Having those words there sometimes adds another layer of meaning across the series, even if it's an idle fantasy of mine.

Two: it should not be possible to make me cry just like that.

--Rexfelum

P.S.: Hi, Guppy. I'm back. Now your signature line works again. Whee!

P.P.S.: What the heck? I just checked out the subject line for this thread in comparison to Susan's one for Chapter 19. The crew really does have the copyright on triple exclamation marks.
_________________
"May your deity of choice follow you with anchovies." --Terry Pratchett.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alpete77



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One ineresting theory a friend of mine came up with for this chapter:

Brooke = Kami, laying the foundation with his ideas and writing.
Andrew = Raimi, building the walls with artwork, bringing the foundation to life.
Ian = Oran, topping it off with editing and effects.
Broken Saints = Shandala, they built the project and now the project has taken on a life of its own, residing in the house they created.

I love this chapter because it makes the characters fall so neatly into place. The four traits are listed before, but I don't recall them ever being together and by this name. The closest would be the vagrant prophecy from Chapter 6.

There's more than just a strong trait for each character, they also have one their lacking in. This excludes Shandy of course, who is a build-up of all three (but also losing those 'fundamental' characteristics ery quickly).

The Oz opening cemented those characteristics.

The Pacific Northwest: we've got "fungal communes" and rain. Whoop!
_________________
I am lost...
Such is the human condition.

I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FallenAngel



Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 1325
Location: Home is where Freddie is.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Each soul is a hostage of its own deeds."

The very first time I read that...it stuck with me. It made perfect sense to me about my life and what path I was headed down. And...if I continued on that path? There would be no kind of happiness left in life for me. It turned me around. It made me love living again.

This has always been my favorite chapter for a few reasons, the first is stated above. The second is because we actually get to go inside...(duh...). We get to see a memory from the three men, something important that allows the viewer better understand them and why they are who they are. It is an important lesson for all of us, we dont always have to look to the outside world for answers, we must go inside as well.

Then, of course, the lesson in bulding your own "house."

And, we get to finally see what each character symbolizes. Kami - Earth, Will. Raimi - Air, Hope. Oran - Fire, Faith. Shandala - Water, Love.


Bada Bing.


Yeah. I just said bada bing.


Whatchoo gonna do about it? Joo tawkin' ta meeh?


Love you all!
_________________
"That's what happens when you play catch without arms."

"did I dream this belief?
or did i believe this dream?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
StellarVisions



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 273
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to agree with all the previous sentiments about this chapter, and my own two cents....

To me, each characters "trip" gives us insight into their personal motivations, what drives each of them towards where they end up, faith-wise, personality-wise, and how they end up at the end of it, when they finally meet.

'Twas an impactful series of events, and I really think that it brings a lot of clarification to The Four, makes things make a little more sense.
_________________

This Forum needs more CatBread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Posts: 2341
Location: Not there...THERE!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of curiosity...

I tried to take extra-special care - with the minimal time available - to ensure that this chappies' voice work was to the same standard as the words themselves (which I'm still fairly happy with).

Did anybody find any particular thoughts that hit home harder here thanks to the addition of voice? For me, Raimi's Mom was a real punch in the throat.

b
_________________
It is flickering
A distant lamp
But I can still see it
Not just another star
It is Me
It is You
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Guppy



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 5670
Location: bullseye, CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep that always hits the waterworks for me... especially the last lil raimi quote too.
_________________
Honor thy error as a hidden intention
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The Matrix Warrior



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: New to these lands. Reply with quote

Quote:
Kami - Earth, Will. Raimi - Air, Hope. Oran - Fire, Faith. Shandala - Water, Love. -fallenangel


If I’m not mistaken I believe that Raimi is associated with AWARENESS.

This is a pivotal point in BS, for it is giving us the key, the holy key, urging us to remember. Yes it gives us a glimpse into the lives of the three men and gives us a clue as to why they are who they are. “we are the sum of our experiences” but what is important here is the MESSAGE. Did we see the message?

Kami- His WILL is strong, firm, unmovable, uncompromising to its path,.He is resilient, nurturing, giving indiscriminately of himself to comfort and shelter the wounded just like our mother EARTH. A will that is strengthened by faith.
To challenge this will would be futile.

Raimi- Acquires his knowledge with the grace and skillfulness of the swirling WINDS. Traveling further into the void with speed and stealthness in search of the truth to further his understanding, giving him the AWARENESS they all need.

Oran- His FAITH burns with the intensity of the FIREs of the gods, fierce and relentless giving strength to carry on. He is the all consuming fire that will never stop fighting for what he believes in. His will is also strong for he has faith.

When the three come together, and unite, only then will LOVE/Shandala find them, a Love as abundant as the ocean WATER to refresh and make new, to give life with the crushing force and power of the fearsome tides. She touches the four corners of the earth all at once to make them one. Intensifying their faith by fuelling their fires with the power of Love, strengthening their will by sustaining it with Love, and guiding them to awareness with the her Love, urging the seeker to uncover the knowledge within and strive for the truth by showing them a path to Love and exposing the light.

Once the house of Love is built can Love come to us. She will find us, she will make us strong she will make us men.

Shandalla is LOVE and beware to enrage the fury of her storms for her waves will no be so merciful to the corrupt hearts of men. This evil will not stand in her way.

I love the fact that Love is represented by a woman, the feminine. Just makes sense.

Will/Kami and Faith/Oran are connected, complementing one another. challenging one another, exposing each others weaknesses. The strength of will rests on the fiery strength of faith, and the will to carry on, reinforces the faith within,

Raimi is like the wind, touching all four corners of the earth brining the three together and giving them purpose. He creates a movement, just like the winds that move the spirit with understanding an knowledge, with this comes power, but this knowledge would be useless with out the faith and will to do something about it. The three are inextricably connected, brought together by the mysteries of Love to bring Love into their lives.

Did we get the message?? What knowledge did we acquire and will we use it, or let it be useless?? will it make us powerful or will we chose to be powerless?
_________________
The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Location: Bleh! :D

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just rewatched this one last night. I haven't yet seen the DVD (however, August is but a few months away!), so I have no idea what the voices sound like just yet. However, from what I've heard off the podcast files, they're bound to pack quite a punch, I bet.

The opening sequence scared the shit out of me. "We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of-- ROOOAAAAAARGH!" Daaaamn. Now don't get me wrong, there were several parts that freaked me out during the series, but as far as I remember, that's the only one that had me physically screaming.

The actual "trips" are really interesting, but even before that, this chapter has some pretty noteworthy stuff.

For example, when Kami and Oran are praying, at first glance it seems like they're just getting at it again, but I realized after watching a second time that it actually seems more like they're bonding a little bit. It made me feel kind of sad, though. Would they have ever stopped getting at each other's throats hadn't they taken in Shandala?

And then, when Raimi's starting to break down, he apologizes to Oran, starts tearing up a bit, and says "the only thing stopping me from jack knifing out the fucking window is... is this girl's face." That was sort of a wake-up call for me, when I realized just how much development he had gone through. At the beginning of the series, he talks completely nonchalantly about some guy who was impaled on the roof of a hot dog cart. Now, at this point he's taking in some sick girl he doesn't know, worried as all get out, and doing all he can to make sure she doesn't die. HUGE character development there.
_________________
Dark Otaku wrote:
I think I'll compliment IB in Bork, Bork, Borkian...

Ze sveedish chef: eenfuneet bluoo ees ell ebuoot keyewtneuoeuoeus BORK BORK BORK!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah . . . what you said. Maybe a little differently.

Infinite Blue wrote:
The opening sequence scared the shit out of me. "We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of-- ROOOAAAAAARGH!"

Actually, I still hear Ozzzzz! Like with the warbling cry that first occured when Oran shouted "Allah!" in Chapter 6, I still hear "Allah" even when it's elsewhere; and when I hear the female scream that went near "Christ" in the opening to Chapter 22 . . . you get the idea.

Infinite Blue wrote:
For example, when Kami and Oran are praying, at first glance it seems like they're just getting at it again, but I realized after watching a second time that it actually seems more like they're bonding a little bit.

"The incense does this for you?" Before, he would never have placed an emotional idea out into the open for an answer. I mean, it's even a religious one--from the "zealot"!

Infinite Blue wrote:
That was sort of a wake-up call for me, when I realized just how much development he had gone through. At the beginning of the series, he talks completely nonchalantly about some guy who was impaled on the roof of a hot dog cart. Now, at this point he's taking in some sick girl he doesn't know, worried as all get out, and doing all he can to make sure she doesn't die.

. . . And empathizing with the dead coworker.

Fun fun fun!

--Rexfelum
_________________
"May your deity of choice follow you with anchovies." --Terry Pratchett.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Location: Bleh! :D

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rexfelum wrote:

. . . And empathizing with the dead coworker.
But... but that's chapter 17! [/anal retention]

But yeah, about the sounds: I never really noticed that before. I'll have to check that out, that sounds pretty interesting.
_________________
Dark Otaku wrote:
I think I'll compliment IB in Bork, Bork, Borkian...

Ze sveedish chef: eenfuneet bluoo ees ell ebuoot keyewtneuoeuoeus BORK BORK BORK!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infinite Blue wrote:
Rexfelum wrote:
. . . And empathizing with the dead coworker.
But... but that's chapter 17!

Uh? When in 17 did he want to jump out a window?

Infinite Blue wrote:
But yeah, about the sounds: I never really noticed that before. I'll have to check that out, that sounds pretty interesting.

Interesting to me, but apparently meaningless/my imagination. No one else has said anything, including the creators.

--Rexfelum
_________________
"May your deity of choice follow you with anchovies." --Terry Pratchett.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Posts: 2341
Location: Not there...THERE!

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IB - you REALLY need to get the DVD...even if you just watch the non-voiced version...the sound design holds maaaaaaany cluuuuuuues

And Rex - you WONDER why I dream of you attacking the Wiki?
_________________
It is flickering
A distant lamp
But I can still see it
Not just another star
It is Me
It is You
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Location: Bleh! :D

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rex: Whoops. Scratch that Chapter 17 thing I said. I was having a total brain fart, there. ^^;

B: What, you think I don't have August 1st marked on my calendar?
_________________
Dark Otaku wrote:
I think I'll compliment IB in Bork, Bork, Borkian...

Ze sveedish chef: eenfuneet bluoo ees ell ebuoot keyewtneuoeuoeus BORK BORK BORK!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3897

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I really like having these threads still here. As I said before, it allows me to post these little thoughts somewhere without having to start an entire new thread that just languishes.

. . .

"I play along as you tilt at windmills and harbour strays."

I've been presuming that Palmer was talking about Shandala. Well, he probably is; when Palmer drugged Shandala, he seemed mystified as to why Lear was keeping her around, but "played along" anyway.

Now I have the little comic book that came with the most recent release.

And I'm noticing how the word "strays" is plural.

Other persons here who have the comic: what do you think about that section at the start? Is Raimi another stray?

--Rexfelum

P.S.:

Infinite Blue wrote:
B: What, you think I don't have August 1st marked on my calendar?

When I read this again a moment ago, I thought it said "shoulder" instead of "calendar." I don't know why. You don't tattoo your body with your fandom, do you?
_________________
"May your deity of choice follow you with anchovies." --Terry Pratchett.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Location: Bleh! :D

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I support silly methods of fandom such as posting cryptic messages via sticky notes on bathroom stalls while nobody's looking, and walking around in the hallway with signs taped to my back...

No. No, sir, I do not.
_________________
Dark Otaku wrote:
I think I'll compliment IB in Bork, Bork, Borkian...

Ze sveedish chef: eenfuneet bluoo ees ell ebuoot keyewtneuoeuoeus BORK BORK BORK!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Broken Saints Forum Index -> We Haven't Slept in Lifetimes...and our 1000 Eyes are Burning. All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP