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Proposed Board Voting System
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motoko_chan_o0o



Joined: 05 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, not that my opinion matters, much... but I'll put it out there anyways. I've kept quiet on this whole thing for two reasons:

1. I was waiting for it all the blow over and settle down fairly quickly.. thought it's looking like that isn't happening.

2. I have a houseful of sick kids and really ill myself so I didn't have the time or energy to sit down and type out my opinion.. but here I am

So, here I am and this is how I feel. If you're going to do mods, my feelings are that if you're not comfortable with the idea that when you make decisions not everyone is going to be happy with it... then you're in the wrong position. Sorry, it's just how I feel.. NEVER in an internet community are you going to make major changes or decisions without pissing at least a few people off. If you're constantly changing things to try and make everyone happy, it'll be a never ending vicious circle that will eventually burn out the mods and make them very bitter burdened people. I'd hate to see that happen to anyone here.

Idealy I'd like to see us self-moderate and censor ourselve like adults, but since that has *rarely* happened here because of that wide difference in ages and maturity and opinions -- that will never work. So if the answer is to appoint mods, I don't think a voting system would be a good idea. They should be appointed by the owner of the site, and be left at that. Sorry.. it's just how I feel. I don't think posters should have any say so on that. It leaves waay too much open for personal attacks and not based on any real valid reasons why that person wouldn't make a good mod (as we've seen here already with the whole Sag/Xan situation). I think that the best thing for everyone (while not everyone will be happy with it... again, go back to my first paragraph) would be to leave it as is. If someone shows in their actions that they are inproper for the position, hen things can be changed around, but I think wholely that decision should be left to Brooke. Not a whole lot of people are gonna like it.. but it's just how I feel. When you leave huge decisions like this up to the masses, only chaos and anger and broken friendships ensue.

There, I said it..
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Saggio l'uno



Joined: 22 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand concern about having a written provision that effectively allows Brooke to determine who can and cannot be a moderator, even if elected by popular vote of the board. However, by codifying it and putting into place procedures and conventions related to it, we are able to effectively control it. Remember, Brooke doesn't have to allow any of this - he certainly doesn't have to allow moderators. Doesn't matter if he has a reason or not, he is still an autocrat, whether anyone likes that label or not. Absolute power is his on these boards.

So, if we set up a provision that allows Brooke to review and accept the results, we allow Brooke to retain control over the boards, but also to prevent any sort of ugly eventuality that may happen because of trolls or whatever. Only by codifying Brooke's role as administrator in a written constitution (like the roles of the mods) do we have any kind of recourse if he chooses to suddenly go all Napoleon and remove the elected officials.

EDIT: Didn't see Motoko's post. Will reply momentarily.
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lastman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dood or bust.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

motoko_chan_o0o wrote:
Well, not that my opinion matters, much...


Hey now, it does matter. If it didn't matter, we wouldn't be asking for everyone's opinion (I especially appreciate yours since we're getting so little out of everyone else).

Also, to a large extent, I agree with you. All the way back before the first mod chat I said I was glad that Brooke went ahead and picked people instead of stretching it out. And frankly, I still kind of think that's right to a large degree. But so many people were pissed by that and so many want elections anyways, well... Guess we're just trying to do the best we can by the most people we can.

That said, I'm pretty happy with the current set of mods. If you can convince everyone else to accept it, more power to ya. ~_^

And Sag, I suppose that makes sense, I'll back it if everyone else is happy with it.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I think there's one last thing: Which mod for which board?

If we're keeping Brooke involved on this from the flip side, I think that we should strictly elect mods on the basis of their ability and it's up to Brooke to assign them to a board. Thus, we don't end up with split votes or a mod being nommed and voted in on more then one board, etc etc etc.
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Saggio l'uno



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero (The Anon One) wrote:
motoko_chan_o0o wrote:
Well, not that my opinion matters, much...


Hey now, it does matter. If it didn't matter, we wouldn't be asking for everyone's opinion (I especially appreciate yours since we're getting so little out of everyone else).

Also, to a large extent, I agree with you. All the way back before the first mod chat I said I was glad that Brooke went ahead and picked people instead of stretching it out. And frankly, I still kind of think that's right to a large degree. But so many people were pissed by that and so many want elections anyways, well... Guess we're just trying to do the best we can by the most people we can.

That said, I'm pretty happy with the current set of mods. If you can convince everyone else to accept it, more power to ya. ~_^

And Sag, I suppose that makes sense, I'll back it if everyone else is happy with it.


If this were any other forum, any other site, any other group of people, I'd agree with you. But it's not. It's something else - something unique and special, and I think the community will only grow stronger if we work through this collectively. In my opinion, an election is the best way to do this...

Quote:
Oh, I think there's one last thing: Which mod for which board?

If we're keeping Brooke involved on this from the flip side, I think that we should strictly elect mods on the basis of their ability and it's up to Brooke to assign them to a board. Thus, we don't end up with split votes or a mod being nommed and voted in on more then one board, etc etc etc.


My gut reaction is to have people vote for mods for specific boards. Have them function like ridings - problems can occur if we do that, though. If I happen to run in both General AND Rants, does that mean that someone can vote for me twice? Albeit, they would be votes for different positions, but, nonetheless...

If we let Brooke decide which winner goes where, I believe we give him too much power. The people should be able to decide who they want where - Brooke should only give the nod. That is, if he agrees to all of the proposed.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about this then? You can only accept a nomination for one board. You can change what that nomination is, up until the nom deadline though.
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Saggio l'uno



Joined: 22 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero (The Anon One) wrote:
What about this then? You can only accept a nomination for one board. You can change what that nomination is, up until the nom deadline though.


That sounds entirely reasonable. Does anyone else have any input? It seems like Zero and I are just playing Tennis...
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motoko_chan_o0o



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought, that Brooke made the decisions about who to mod where was based upon prior passion, zeal, and leadership qualities in said topics. For the most part, I agree with the placements and don't think that they should be changed or fooled around with.

Again, it goes back to my original feeling of the decision being made, it's been done, deal. If you don't like it.. you're perfectly entitled to bitch about it, fine. At the moment it becomes fairly destructive or turns into a personal vendetta, then you need to take a step back and work that out on your own time and stop wasting ours. You can't make all the people happy all the time, or even part of the time.

Change happens in internet communities every single day, I've seen them come apart at the seams, shut down, and just blow away in the wind. I can't say this is what I want for this place. It holds far too many friendships for me to want that. However, aside from how I feel.. if we keep this pace up... it's where it's going to end up. People get pissed, people leave, the place shuts down and the dream is gone. Let's not let that happen people. Let's just not go there. Go with the flow, whatever preconcieved notions we had about mods we need to set to the side right now and see how this plays out before jumping the gun and screaming " DOWN WITH MODS< DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!" cause really, the mods haven't done anything for us to base this off of. Give them a chance before we start voting people off the island.
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Saggio l'uno



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motoko, please post more. You friggin' rock.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen. I'm going to do a summary post in a few, I'm still working right now, hence the delay.
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Guppy



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we cannot nominate ourselves right?
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope. Someone else has to nom you for a board, and then you have to accept that. (Sorry, I swear I'll explain ti clearly soon, work is killing me.)
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Emperor Xan



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero (The Anon One) wrote:
Oh, I think there's one last thing: Which mod for which board?

If we're keeping Brooke involved on this from the flip side, I think that we should strictly elect mods on the basis of their ability and it's up to Brooke to assign them to a board. Thus, we don't end up with split votes or a mod being nommed and voted in on more then one board, etc etc etc.


I have a possible solution for that, but I'm in an assload of pain from writing and have more math to finish, so I'll have to post it later.
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moto_lazy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't get it... is the world going to end if we leave things how they are now, and if a major problem or lapse in judgement by one of the mods happens, then we take action and call for a 'revote'? Is everyone so unhappy with the choices of mods simply because it wasn't the "voice of the boards" that chose them? Just let it play out.. and then call for a vote. Give them a chance to prove their worth, before we take it away.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moto_lazy wrote:
Is everyone so unhappy with the choices of mods simply because it wasn't the "voice of the boards" that chose them?


I suspect to a large degree it is, honestly. On one hand, I say it's a dumb reason for a lot needless drama, on the other I say, what's the point of autonomy of we don't actually choose for ourselves. I am sorry it's come down to this.
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Zero (The Anon One)



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summary
--------------

Here's how the voting proposal works right now:

Nominations:
First, we take nominations. Someone nominates you for a specific board in the nomination thread. i.e. "I nominate Saggio for Rants!" or "I nominate Rex for storyline!" Rex or Sag can then accept or decline your nomination. If you want to be elected, you have to accept, though! And no, you can't nominate yourself! ~_^

Voting:
You look at the list of nominated boardrats, and send your votes in TWO PM's to BOTH Election Commissioners.

Tally time:
The election commissioners count the votes, Brooke approves the winners, and makes them mods.

Sidenotes:
Mods are mods for one year.
Election commissioners can't run for mod.

The End. That's not so hard, is it?
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Kiretsu



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motoko has said the most intelligent thing about all of this so far, other than Dood, of course.
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ravin_13



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly don't care if we have mods or not, or who they are. Obviously I dislike spambots and trolls, but as any forum grows, they are bound to happen. As long as they delete the spam and the trolls that piss off everyone, I don't care, if they go and block someone because of a disagreement, then there's a problem, but I doubt anyone here would do that.
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Mooshou



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravin_13 wrote:
I honestly don't care if we have mods or not, or who they are. Obviously I dislike spambots and trolls, but as any forum grows, they are bound to happen. As long as they delete the spam and the trolls that piss off everyone, I don't care, if they go and block someone because of a disagreement, then there's a problem, but I doubt anyone here would do that.


I concur. I just hope things don't become a popularity contest.
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