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That one detail
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Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Location: Bleh! :D

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, when I was first checking out the Broken Saints flash, the abbreviation "bs" used to get to me sometimes. Sometimes, when I was kinda spacey or just plain not thinking I'd read it over in my mind as 'bullshit' and think "What the?!" ...and then I'd be all like "Oh yeah... Broken Saints... ehehe. ^^;"
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bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man...we're never going to live that down
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Lady_darcia



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
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Location: A cardboard box

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were a few things that irked me, but the one that comes to mind first is that at the end of Chaper 24 Raimi says "They might forget...but we can remind them", but who the hell is gonna remind them after Rami and Oran die or the laptop gets busted up or something. That always kinda depresses me.
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lady_darcia wrote:
There were a few things that irked me, but the one that comes to mind first is that at the end of Chaper 24 Raimi says "They might forget...but we can remind them", but who the hell is gonna remind them after Rami and Oran die or the laptop gets busted up or something. That always kinda depresses me.

Well, there are multiple ways to respond to that.

First, there's the view that what you've stated is irrelevant. Raimi and Oran are already dead, the laptop was fried by residual EMP, they are all in heaven, Raimi and Oran are "the new gods," and they will watch over humanity forever. Well . . . at least until they are "the old gods" to some new situation.

Second, the fact that Raimi thinks he can just mess with humanity by frying their brains again is itself depressing. As is stated in the loading haiku before the final act (Flash version, of course):

Brooke wrote:
as the skies conspire
and the wind rises from it
we are being watched

Brooke didn't want all viewers to like the ending flat out. He wanted us to debate whether Raimi was any better than Lear, which we did for one gigantic thread a while ago. So, you can take the view that the death of Raimi and Oran (disregarding everything I said in my first reply, of course) would be a good thing.

Third, super-technology-man Raimi has got to have backups, and everybody on the planet can use the global wireless. If these main characters die (again, assuming my first reply is incorrect), one can easily imagine another story on some future day when adventurous souls recover the broadcast.

Hmm. I don't think anybody on this forum has actually proposed that last idea before . . .

--Rexfelum
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Saggio l'uno



Joined: 22 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sequels. If Brooke makes a sequel, I will find him, send him to the bottom of Burrard Inlet myself.
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Vertigo21



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this is exclusive to the DVD, but:

One thing that bugged me was that scene when Kami comes to America for the first time and he's in the airport, you see the talk bubbles and the backwards text (btw, what do they say? just curious) but no chatter.

It's one of the few times where there's no voice and it should be the scene with the MOST voice going on. Even if it's just people talking over each other, mumbling, etc...it would have helped a lot more. Just a minor irk. Hey, maybe it would sound like shit to have all those people talking over each other. I'm sure the crew has perfectly logical reasons for leaving that scene devoid of voice that I didn't think of.
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Lady_darcia



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rexfelum wrote:
Well, there are multiple ways to respond to that.

First, there's the view that what you've stated is irrelevant. Raimi and Oran are already dead, the laptop was fried by residual EMP, they are all in heaven, Raimi and Oran are "the new gods," and they will watch over humanity forever. Well . . . at least until they are "the old gods" to some new situation.


Ok, but if they are dead and in heaven, does that mean Tui and his whole tribe are dead too? And where did Shan go? Wouldn't she be in heaven, and therefore reunited with Tui?

Rexfelum wrote:
Second, the fact that Raimi thinks he can just mess with humanity by frying their brains again is itself depressing. As is stated in the loading haiku before the final act (Flash version, of course):

Brooke wrote:
as the skies conspire
and the wind rises from it
we are being watched

Brooke didn't want all viewers to like the ending flat out. He wanted us to debate whether Raimi was any better than Lear, which we did for one gigantic thread a while ago. So, you can take the view that the death of Raimi and Oran (disregarding everything I said in my first reply, of course) would be a good thing.


Good point. I never thought about that. I'm semi-new here, so is this thread still open?

Rexfelum wrote:
Third, super-technology-man Raimi has got to have backups, and everybody on the planet can use the global wireless. If these main characters die (again, assuming my first reply is incorrect), one can easily imagine another story on some future day when adventurous souls recover the broadcast.

Hmm. I don't think anybody on this forum has actually proposed that last idea before . . .

--Rexfelum


Unless the network gets destroyed in someway. But lets not be too cynical. ^^
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Vertigo21



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm watching the chapter where they go to the mars club and I remembered another thing that bothered me.

Why would Lear or whoever entrust Mars with Shandala? He didn't exactly put her in the most secure place...there was an out of order sign, but anyone who decided to put a token in anyway would see her. You think he'd have put her in a backroom storage somewhere locked up at least.
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lady_darcia wrote:
Ok, but if they are dead and in heaven, does that mean Tui and his whole tribe are dead too? And where did Shan go? Wouldn't she be in heaven, and therefore reunited with Tui?

Ah, hrm, not exactly how I was approaching the idea. Go for metaphors, woman! Metaphors!

Of course Tui and his tribe wouldn't be dead in this view--not unless you want to say that the caretakers of Heaven are dead. Lomalagi literally translates as Heaven--a fact that we knew since early in the series--and all persons involved have been viewing it as a paradisical escape (see Chapter 21). Therefore, upon death, the thematically ideal place for our two book-following religious characters to go would be here--especially since their thoughts were colored by their desire to fulfill Shandala's promise.

Now, with this in mind, it would be thematically inappropriate for Oran and Raimi to see these other characters in their own personal heaven. Shandala achieved her version of Nirvana, Kamimura achieved just plain Nirvana, Tui Jr. is not part of their lives, etc. If this is just the end of the story as they saw it, and not as the rest of the material world saw it, a lot of niggling details can just be ignored. (Like, for example, any questions about the actual physical place called Lomalagi on Earth. I mean, Raimi couldn't find it on the map, and it is only through Gabriel (interesting name)'s magic "coordinates" (referenced in Chapter 24) that anyone got there.)

Of course, if you don't buy into that view of the afterlife, then obviously it won't work for you. But considering the all-inclusive nature of this story, I find it very likely that people would have individually-meaningful afterlives.

Lady_darcia wrote:
Good point. I never thought about that. I'm semi-new here, so is this thread still open?

That would be nice, wouldn't it? If you would like to see how our friend The Couch Guy basically resolved the entire thread, I could repost his conclusion sometime. We used to have one giant thread of his posts, but they seem to have vanished.

Okay, time to get back to work.

--Rexfelum
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, you got in before I was done.

Vertigo21 wrote:
I'm watching the chapter where they go to the mars club and I remembered another thing that bothered me.

Why would Lear or whoever entrust Mars with Shandala? He didn't exactly put her in the most secure place...there was an out of order sign, but anyone who decided to put a token in anyway would see her. You think he'd have put her in a backroom storage somewhere locked up at least.

Who said anything about security, entrusting, or otherwise not wanting the main characters to find her? Lear is watching through a video camera from behind the entire time. And then, after the video camera is revealed to us, we cut over to a scene of him making more of his familiar "end is nigh"-type poetry.

Now, the more convoluted line of thought is the one where, in light of the above, you try to figure out exactly how many puppet strings are being pulled. "Grand plans" are fun that way.

--Rexfelum
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, as long as this thread is still around . . . is there any legal way that Kamimura could have walked through airport security with a sword and some human remains? We never did get a comment from Brooke on that one.

--Rexfelum
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JoshSpazJosh



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were so many stories in the month immediately after 9/11 of people getting katanas and all kinds of weapons past the "heightened security", no-questions-asked. . .

. . . so, yeah, probably.
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bs



Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Posts: 2341
Location: Not there...THERE!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I explained it in the commentaries...

The Shinto artifacts were made of volcanic glass/quartz crystal - the 'gem', the 'polished mirror', and even the sword. I originally wanted to do a nifty X-Ray scene that teased the contents and had the security officers inspect them without giving it away. In the script, I had one of them pick up the sword offscreen and say "That's damn sharp, even for 'glass'"...to which Kami would've replied "It is ceremonial". Long pause. They observe the 'frail old man'...and let him through.

Don't worry...it'll be in the game version

b
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Vertigo21



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Location: WA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bs wrote:
I think I explained it in the commentaries...

The Shinto artifacts were made of volcanic glass/quartz crystal - the 'gem', the 'polished mirror', and even the sword. I originally wanted to do a nifty X-Ray scene that teased the contents and had the security officers inspect them without giving it away. In the script, I had one of them pick up the sword offscreen and say "That's damn sharp, even for 'glass'"...to which Kami would've replied "It is ceremonial". Long pause. They observe the 'frail old man'...and let him through.

Don't worry...it'll be in the game version

b


I figured the sword was made of some fragile material, since it broke when Kami used it in the end. It did break, right?
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Infinite Blue, Quack M.D.



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAARGH, I KEPT FORGETTING THIS ONE!!! Dx

In chapter 15, I think, Gabriel offers Shandala a chance to know her real name, right?

So, what is her real name? Is it something symbolic, seeing as Lear is all about symbolism? Did he even give her a name? Are we going to have to wait for the comic in order to find out? Who stole my wallet? Is it EMILY? I like that name. It's a very pretty name, and Shannie looks like she could be an Emily. And [insert further ramblings here]
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Dark Otaku wrote:
I think I'll compliment IB in Bork, Bork, Borkian...

Ze sveedish chef: eenfuneet bluoo ees ell ebuoot keyewtneuoeuoeus BORK BORK BORK!!!
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Rexfelum



Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought about that scene a lot. Was Gabriel even expecting her to be interested? If she were, would he have told her? Hmm.

I suspect one of two things:

Maybe her name is Mariko Dunham. You know, what with the whole cloning thing. If this were true, then Gabriel could have told her it without revealing too much to her, so he was safe to make the offer.

Alternately, maybe there just wasn't a name, as you implied. In the same way that the "gray face" was nameless, the fleshy version was nameless. Note that Lear never called her anything to her face outside of symbolic stuff.

Okay, I'm done.

--Rexfelum
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Elemiah



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bs wrote:
Locked 'from the inside' means that somehow the computer/housing unit decided to lock the door and he couldn't override it. You should have absolute control from the 'inside'...he had NONE.

Hence - 'It's locked from the inside (which, if you listened to the voice version - would show you that he's aghast and agog, since that makes no sense).


Yeah, that bugged me for a bit, until I realized that Biocom controlled the housing, therefore if he was being the target of the EMP blast they could trap em like a rat.

Although, if it was a progressive EMP firing, that means there was a moment when the computers controlling the door would've been disabled from the minute, initial part of the attack, giving Raimi a moment or two where he could've yanked it open anyway.

My head hurts...
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WitnessNoMore



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chapter 15, act 2 or 3, when Raimi is sitting at his computer, it looks his foot is on backwards, but maybe I'm just seeing it wrong, well it still bothered me, too many commas, sorry.
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bs



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's wearing slippers LOL
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Jacob Anderson



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awakening, right at the end. As Gabriel is waving at Shandala and Chief Tui from the boat, the shadow that he casts on them is a mirror of what it should be.
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